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kubrick

Joined:

Sep 06

Posts: 1542

kubrick says:

Designer Of The Century... ?

Thanks to everybody for giving me such an exceptionally warm welcome to the "back room"! I do hope there's space in here for discussion instead of "I'm right, you're an idiot" rants which have recently taken over the main comments' pages. 

But that's not what this is about - this is about nothing less than The Designer Of The Century! I'll make it clear, once again: this isn't about being right or wrong, but about having an opinion and explaining it - a concept one J. B., Esq. isn't acquainted with... (Sorry, couldn't resist)

There are no right or wrong choices here, in fact, I'd be delighted to read some Ken Greenley fanboys explaining their hero's misunderstood genius. Just please don't just name names - "Gandini", "Scaglione" or, who knows,  "Bangle" would be a bit too simple. 

Allow me to start: Giugiaro. Why? Mainly because of the wealth of ideas he's had over the course of his career. Some of his designs have admittedly been better than others, but I fail to find any more versatile car stylist. He started, funnily enough, with sports cars/super cars, a job most would consider to be a career's apex. During that period he created the shockingly beautiful Ghibli and the almost equally beautiful, but much more popular Miura (Gandini added a few details, but the Miura is 80% Giugiaro's, as even Gandini admits behind closed doors). Then came the folded paper period, which defined 70's and much of the 80's car design in general - a trend he and Gandini started almost simultaneously. But towards the end of the decade, Giugiaro almost lost all interest in aesthetics. For the next years he was all about packaging and good looks took a backseat. Yet he still managed to create the defining small car of the 80's in the shape of the ultra-simple Panda, whose unfussiness still has to be matched. And the original Delta still has to be among the most attractive hatchbacks of all time. Other projects, such as the joint SAAB 9000/Fiat Croma/Lancia Thema programme, may not be of striking visual value, but I do respect how he managed to give three cars their own identities while he was forced to give each one of them almost the exact same proportions and even sheetmetal such as the doors. He admittedly seemed to have been slumbering during much of the 90's - though the original Punto was a fine car, as was the Nazca, which was designed by his son. But in 2003 he gave the world the Brera, which is to me the most desirable sports car money cannot buy (don't get me started on its extremely compromised FWD cousin). The Brera is not just shockingly gorgeous, but also fresh and inventive at the same time - and not an old man's design at all.

But there's another, more subliminal reason for my love of his work - if something says Giugiaro on the tin, you can be certain there's Giugiaro inside. Any crease, any bulge, any plane has been styled by The Great Man himself (and engineering necessities, of course). This shouldn't be taken for granted in a world of "star designers" such as Leonardo Fioravanti or Walter de' Silva, who have the nasty habit of passing off other people's work as their own. 

Oh dear, it did turn into a bit of a rant, didn't it? I'm sorry. 

Attached images:

  1. Italdesign Brera 3  
  2. Maserati Ghibli 1  

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livc44411

Joined:

Apr 08

Posts: 2365

livc44411 says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

My top three would be the obvious ones Pininfarina,Giugiaro and Le Quement...I'll expand on that though when I get a bit more time (and i am less tired lol)

-Focus RS,Megane RS,you gotta love 'em-

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Batty

Joined:

Mar 08

Posts: 4886

Batty says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

Kubrick, it is as though you were born for the forum with a thread introduction like that. What a welcome addition you are to our merry band! Fantastic my friend, excellent work.

I offer Pinin Farina's work as a riposte. Aside from the brilliant legacy and company that he left behind, it was his body of work that would see him ordained as the greatest designer in my opinion. While Sig. Giugiaro is indeed a fine and indecently talented designer, it was the aesthetic balance, romatic elegance and latent sporting intent that Pinin could combine, like no other, which sets him apart. The Cisitalia 202 redefined a sports car look, and set the template that is emulated today. I would argue that the Brera uses the same proportions as the Cisitalia with a slight variation in stance, and major detail modification. If this were his only achievement, he could be dismissed as perhaps another de Silva but then he moved into the 50's

My favourite car from the great man in this period was the Lancia Flaminia. Oh so elegant and sporting, it captures everything that the Betley Continental misses today. A revolution that artfully combined the contemporary American excess with demure European elegance.

The we move into the sixties where perhaps my most favourite design of all time was penned, the Ferrari Lusso. Supple, lissome and menacing, it embodies in metal that moment during sex where you look into your lover's eyes and you can see their desire. That flash of sensual frission is made real in a dramatic union of aggression and luxury. Superb.

And I could add further evidence but that would be repeating my Pininfarina hero thread, and that I feel would be a disservice to this great subject

From the dedicated forum faithful, I am heartily pleased and grateful that you have posed this question, and I trust that it will not be the last.
 

Attached images:

  1. 800px-Lancia_Flaminia_Coup%C3%A9_1  
  2. 800px-SC06_1964_Ferrari_250_GT_Lusso_Berlinetta  
  3. Cisitalia_3_4_v  

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.

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Robby1977

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 1681

Robby1977 says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

I am probably a little out of my comfort zone on this one, probably knowing only obvious contenders by the design house giants. I will read with interest though & confident it will be fun to learn more about certain iconic designers CV's!

One designer I have always liked the work of is Peter Stephens. The man must deserve a mention if nothing else for creating the look of the greatest supercar of them all, the Maclaren F1.

Other greats include the S2 Elan, the Esprit rework, & the Jag XJR-15. Where the last mention is concerned, it's such a shame the car was a dog, because it was a work of art!

Then it all went wrong & he moved to Rover to design Streetwise's & CityRovers............

Attached images:

  1. Jaguar%20XJR15-blu-sVr=mx=  
  2. lotus  
  3. Mac  

They say that a dog is mans best friend. This simple experiment proves this. Lock your missus and your dog in the boot of your car. Return to let them out after an hour and see which one is most pleased to see you....

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lokinen

Joined:

Aug 06

Posts: 2262

lokinen says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

I am actually a bit of a Michelotti fan .i'll pick out some of my favourites later.Back to normal,had a midnight start so just off to bed.Bit of a shock after two and a bit weeks jury service.

Good work kubrick 

Beep Beep

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ga41

Joined:

Apr 07

Posts: 2942

ga41 says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

My designer of the century?

I dont have one i guess. I havent particularly studied any ones work so i cant say. Like Robby i would have to go with one of the big names so i wont bore you.

That said i would like to read up on some of them. Sig. Giugiaro and Sig.Farina especially.

- http://www.freerice.com/ For each answer you get right, they will donate 10 grains of rice to the United Nations World Food Program -

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car4mh

Joined:

Dec 06

Posts: 1804

car4mh says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

  A thought-provoking question, Kubrick. I've been pondering it over the last couple of days and in doing so taken a journey through the history of automotive styling.

The first thing that came to mind was, which century? If we're talking 20th century design then all the greats come to mind (and in respect to your guidelines will not be namechecked here).

The 21st century becomes much harder, because it's becoming increasingly rare that a new car is credited to the actual design team, rather than to the director of the department. Also, as is happening in the other forms of art, fame becomes increasingly fleeting, and modern designers may only enjoy the limelight for 1 or 2 cars before disappearing.

With this in mind, I've decided to put forward some relatively-unsung designers/stylists for discussion. Not perhaps in the running for the top spot, but worthy of mention & debate.

I'll start with Ercole Spada, the Italian designer credited with many of Zagato's coupes for Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo and Lancia in the 1960s. It was his work with BMW, where he was credited with the E32 7 series and the E34 5 series that brought him to my attention. Cars from the 1988-89 period stick most in my memory because that was the time where I really got into reading about the industry, and the E34 has always impressed me as a beautiful rendition of a contemporary sports-saloon.

His work at IDEA tempers (or indeed, Tempra's) my praise - I note the Alfa 155 on his CV, and thinking back to those late-80s/early-90s Alfas those were not great times for the brand in comparison to the post-156 era (Pininfarina's 164, the GTV/Spider and the ES30 Alfa SZ being honourable exceptions in my book). But I did like the Fiat Tipo 5-door hatch - in its space-efficiency, split-level dashboard and shape it seemed to be trying something new that cars like the Escort, Astra and Golf of the time weren't.

For Ercole Spada's career highlights, my personal picks after some web research are:

  • Aston Martin DB4 GTZ
  • OSCA 1600 GTZ
  • Alfa Giulietta SZ 
  • Alfa Giulia TZ/TZ2 (although the debt to the 250GTO is heavy indeed)
  • Rover 2000TCZ
  • Alfa 1300 and 1800 Junior Z (when you look at these you can understand why I was disappointed by the MiTo)
  • Ford GT70 concept
  • BMW E34 5 Series

Batty, as our resident Lancia afficionado, what are your thoughts on the various Zagato-d Spada cars? (Flavia, Flaminia, Fulvia)?  I prefer the Fulvia coupe to the fastback Fulvia Sport, and the Flavia photos I found were not flattering.  The Flaminia Sport seems to lose some coherence towards the C-pillar? But looks good from front 3/4 view.  

I'll admit I'm on shakey ground here with the various 60s-70s cars, relying far too much on unofficial fansites for much of the background info.  So constructive corrections and further insights are welcome.

 

 

 

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bertandnairobi

Joined:

Feb 07

Posts: 4496

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

Over the last couple of days I had a good wonder about this question. That Ercole Spada´s name came up is heartening. I think he´s one of the really talented jobbing designers who made a big difference without getting the recognition that front men like Giugiaro and Pininfarina did. His BMWs are simply superb and perhaps this why Chris Bangle had to spring off in the other direction. Could you make cars any more refined than this? It´s a problem Audi faced after the Bird years too.

I don´t know my BMW E-numbers but I think it was the E32 7-series and E34 5 series which stood out for me (c1988). If there isn´t a book on Spada then there should be. Has anyone seen his last OSCA concept? I´ve posted a photo for your entertainment.

It will be hard but I´ll try to think of named designers and named cars rather than studio efforts. Being a collaborative enterprise that kind of fine distinction may not be adhered to scrupulously or consistently.

For having the most bang per buck, Flaminio Bertoni reached the zenith with the DS. And then he died.

Battista Pininfarina set the mould for family saloons and coupes with the Lancia Flaminia. Here´s a car I forgot to stick in my dream garage, for goodness´ sake. Batty very passionately summed up that car´s virtues so I won´t go into them further.

Can I mention Paolo Martin at Pininfarina? He penned a series of elegant cars, among them the Fiat 130 coupe which was quite influential in its sharp-edge flat-pannelled simplicity.

My feelings about Giugiario are mixed. On the one hand he jumped out of school and did the prettiest Alfa, the Giualia coupe (he was 23!) and then proceeded to become a sort of industry and lost control of the output. There were some real horrors amongst the jewels. Often I feel Giugiario has penned a design and then fobbed it off elsewhere just because he couldn´t be bothered to do something new for a customer. My evidence here, ladies and gentlemen, is the Jaguar Kensington concept which inspired his work for Daweoo. The Dawoo Bucrane went nowhere under that name but became the Maserati GT. And despite in all likelihood it being a cracking car to slither around in, it doesn´t look all that hot. The proportions are wrong. If he were a shade more willing to fish out his biro and gouaches, he could have done a car which respected Maserati´s aesthetics and not simply retooled the son-of Jag, daughter-of- Daewoo hybrid that Maserati foolishly proceeded to produce.

I´ve simply got to stop. This is why it has taken a week to post a response. There´s just too much to write.

 How have we forgotten Harley Earl at GM? Have we gone mad?

 

 

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  1. osca-2500GT-dromos_rear  

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ga41

Joined:

Apr 07

Posts: 2942

ga41 says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

Feel fry to write as much as you like. Very informative and interesting!

- http://www.freerice.com/ For each answer you get right, they will donate 10 grains of rice to the United Nations World Food Program -

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bertandnairobi

Joined:

Feb 07

Posts: 4496

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

Thanks.

Harley Earl deserves an essay for being simultaneously enormously talented and also being so willing to pander to the excesses of American taste. We could list his achievements and discuss them until we ran out of server space. Únder his regime few individuals got any credit so I can´t offhand cite any particular names. Under his successor, a guy called Bill Mitchell, Ned Nickles emerged as quite a talent. He did the ´63 Buick Riviera and then went to Opel in Germany and sketched the Ambassador, Kadett, Kapitan and the hot little Opel GT. I´m name checking now so I ought to go to the sofa and read the paper now.

 

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  1. Jan_1_2009  

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car4mh

Joined:

Dec 06

Posts: 1804

car4mh says:

Re: Designer Of The Century... ?

bertandnairobi said:

Over the last couple of days I had a good wonder about this question. That Ercole Spada´s name came up is heartening. I think he´s one of the really talented jobbing designers who made a big difference without getting the recognition that front men like Giugiaro and Pininfarina did. His BMWs are simply superb and perhaps this why Chris Bangle had to spring off in the other direction. Could you make cars any more refined than this? It´s a problem Audi faced after the Bird years too.

I don´t know my BMW E-numbers but I think it was the E32 7-series and E34 5 series which stood out for me (c1988). If there isn´t a book on Spada then there should be. Has anyone seen his last OSCA concept? I´ve posted a photo for your entertainment.


Correct Bert with your BMWs.  It was indeed the '87 7 series and '88 5 series that Spada is credited with. An E34 M5 would be in my lottery garage.  While he doesn't appear to have a book out his current company Spadaconcept does have a website:  www.spadaconcept.com

 

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