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You are in... Forums > General > Design > Ashtrays

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bertandnairobi

Joined:

Feb 07

Posts: 4536

Ashtrays

Some of us smoke. Some of us don´t. Some want to smoke and can´t. All of us here drive and have ash or small coins to store somewhere.

This means we all have some interest in ashtrays in cars.

As regular members here know, I drive an elderly Citroen. Apart from a graunchy gearchange and dangerously pointy doors, it´s the ashtray that causes me the most dissatisfaction. The ashtray is well sized and illuminated by a nice green lamp that creates a ghostly wonderland of cigar ash as I travel about the land under the cover of darkness. I´d call this a selling point.

The tragedy is that the gear lever is so placed that one has to use ridiculously elaborate wrist acrobatics to direct the cigar tip to the ashtray. Another problem is that when the ashtray is open there is a gap between the lid and the fascia. That gap is so large I once lost a whole cigar to the car¨s inner workings. Luckily the Habana Feu was not lit at the time.

Twenty years on, have Citroen learned from the XM debacle? No. I was sitting in a C5 and the first thing I did was inspect the ashtray. If anything ,the position is slightly worse than in the 1989 car. And the ashtray is not so much a tray or receptacle as a very slightly inclined ledge, a sort of ash cranny.  This is not good enough. During any long journey the accumulation of ash will result in a cascade of debris falling onto the fashionably soft plastic. This is a terrible problem. A box of Villiger Export, if smoked correctly, creates quite a lot of material, you know.

Ten minutes after visiting Citroen I was over at Ford´s dealer across town. I sat happily in the driver´s seat of the current Mondeo, an example in Ghia spec.  To Ford´s credit, it´s a lovely interior. Lush, in fact. I don't have the cash but I really wanted to own this car. But. Butt. The ashtray lid was a cost-cutter's paragon. If you try to open the lid by pressing on the upper edge, the lid flexes markedly. It´s made of plastic that is too thin. If the plastic was 1.2 mm thick it ought to have been 2.4 mm thick. Better still, it ought to have been made of metal. And if you reached for the chromed lip on the lower edge of the panel, your fingers tended to slide off. Result: ashtray unopened. Frustration. Rage. Dropped ash.

Once you have finally prised the lid open the Mondeo you find that the "ashtray" is evidently the slightly inclined ledge that Citroen copied for their collage of ripped-off styling cues that is the current C5. "My name is Jacque Fresnois, and I benchmarked Ford´s ashtrays for my work on ze C5 interieur...."

Who among you has a car with a big, easy to use ashtray? Mr Kubrick...what are the Jaguars like?

Thoughts? Inferences?

Eventually I hope this thread can flower into a vibrant forum of ergonomic plaudits and brickbats.

B&N

 

 

 

 

 

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farmersboy

Joined:

Aug 06

Posts: 146

farmersboy says:

Re: Ashtrays

This was always one of my gripes back in the day when I smoked - quite a few cars have the ashtray added as an afterthought just in front of the gear lever.

As for the Mondeo I have a Mk3 and the ashtray, although quite small, is mounted vertically just behind the gear lever and the flap that covers it is very sturdy.

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kubrick

Joined:

Sep 06

Posts: 1547

kubrick says:

Re: Ashtrays

Believe me, I'd love to rave about Jaguar's glorious history and ongoing excellence in the ashtray department, but as a matter of fact I don't smoke, so I'm unable to make a valid comment here. 

However - beware, anecdote approaching! - I remember the story that Claude Lobo, formerly head of Ford Europe design, was a chain smoker and therefore was on a personal mission to make the Focus Mk. 1's ashtray an exceptionally practical one. I think it's placed in such a way that one doesn't have to take the hand off the steering wheel while ashing into it. Unfortunately I don't know anything about its tactile qualities.

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ga41

Joined:

Apr 07

Posts: 2942

ga41 says:

Re: Ashtrays

Also a non smoker so not much help im afraid but what i can report on is that the ashtray on my old Mitsubishi is quite tiny and of the little drawer kind, you know right underneath the aircon controls and such. It's usually packed with pieces of paper and other small things i want to throw away not ash.

The ashtray in the Z i havent given much thought of to be honest. It's right in front of the gearstick and both the ashtray itself and the lighter are covered by a plastic flap which you push to open. It's real easy to open and close i guess . it's not particularly deep but i think it's deep enough not to have any ash fall out of it while driving and there seems to be adequate space to use it while driving but i wouldnt really know for sure. A strange thing though is that next to the ashtray there a plastic hole that reaches to the bottom of the ashtray. I think that's to extinguish cigarettes and cigars. Maybe Bert can correct me?

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- http://www.freerice.com/ For each answer you get right, they will donate 10 grains of rice to the United Nations World Food Program -

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ga41

Joined:

Apr 07

Posts: 2942

ga41 says:

Re: Ashtrays

I've noticed on forums that people sometimes use that space to install ipod docks or other dials (oil pressure etc). I reckon i'll use it for spare change and other bits and pieces.

- http://www.freerice.com/ For each answer you get right, they will donate 10 grains of rice to the United Nations World Food Program -

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engineer

Joined:

Sep 06

Posts: 777

engineer says:

Re: Ashtrays

As a non-smoker I use the ashtray for parking meter coins. Lined with some felt (or simlar) teh coins don't rattle to much and the lid keeps them hidden.  I can't comment on its location for flicking ash into, I can tell you the coin tray Audi provide is nowhere near as useful as the ashtray i use.

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bertandnairobi

Joined:

Feb 07

Posts: 4536

Re: Ashtrays

To reply to GA41, I really couldn´t say what that mysterious hole could be. I can say that cigarettes tend to expire after seven lovely minutes, while a cigar is best left to to extinguish itself without stubbing or squashing. Better cigars are made of tobacco only and so need constant draft to stay lit.

Inspired by the use of an actual image, I have to see if I can get out into the world to bring back photographic evidence of various ashtrays.

The Honda HRV had a heavy cup with a lid which served as the ashtray. It took up the spaced intended to be a cup-holder. The idea was you removed the cup if you didn´t need it. I may have seen something similar in a Renault Megane.

The most overtly boastful ashtray I have heard of was installed in the last Buick Riviera. The marketing material claimed the ashtray could hold two large cigars. I can only suppose the idea was to appeal to golfers with buddies who´d ride to the link in their Riviera and smoke a few stogies on the way home. This is a more likely scenario than Mr and Mrs Buick Riviera-Owner both being nicotine addicts.

As this thread could lend itself to a consideration of dashboard design in general I´ll see if I can root out my Lancia Trevi brochure and scan it for your amusement. That´s work for tomorrow.

 

 

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kubrick

Joined:

Sep 06

Posts: 1547

kubrick says:

Re: Ashtrays

 I just remembered my most impressive car ashtray encounters: Aston Martin DB9 and Rolls-Royce Phantom! The Aston has a frosted glass ashtray in a rather lovely, oh-so-classy leather surrounding. The Phantom's is, if I remember correctly, made from shiny metal, huge and with a vault-like feel that oozes quality and could probably be used for a dozen Cohibas' remains before it would need to be emptied.  

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bertandnairobi

Joined:

Feb 07

Posts: 4536

Re: Ashtrays

The Phantom solution sounds very satisfactory. It depends of course on the effective packaging of ancillary items like the heater, radio, vents and ducts underneath so as to make room. A good ashtray should probably have about a quarter of a liter`s capacity.
It helps to have a wide chassis when finding room for this and the associated guides and springs.

DS enthusiasts can help verify my understanding that the DS had an ashtray suitable for holding a pipe. If anyone has photographic evidence of this please post it as soon as you can.

Below is a shot of a Bristol Blenheim. A typical driver will want to change gears with the hand closest to the centre of the car and hold a cigarette with the hand closest to the window. This allows the smoke to be borne away by the lower pressure air nearer the slightly open side glass. To this end, Bristol have placed their ashtray on top of the dashboard, at the base of the A-pillar. This solution would be ideal for manual transmission cars but most makers usually put their ashtrays in the centre console. If memory serves, some Jaguars had an ashtray in the door, hidden by a slding metal plate. My Buick Century had ashtrays for rear passengers that were located in the back of the front seats. How elegant.

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lokinen

Joined:

Aug 06

Posts: 2267

lokinen says:

Re: Ashtrays

Ashtrays are positioned to be used whilst driving, and so are cupholders.Use of either whilst driving can now cost the driver pounds and points. I wonder if their days are numbered?

Beep Beep

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bertandnairobi

Joined:

Feb 07

Posts: 4536

Re: Ashtrays

Ashtrays and cupholders will survive regulation because the argument can be put that they are for use when the car is stationary. Why are distracting satnav screen allowed while televisions for drivers are not?

It would a sad day if one was not permitted to smoke and to drive. I have very happy memories of long continental jaunts accompanied by some fine Havana cigars.

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