Re: Lancia´s news from 2006

I too think about Lancia's future from time to time and i have to say i completely agree with you B&N and car4mh. I do think they could co-exist in an ideal world. Alfa Romeo the more sporting near premium brand and Lancia the premium-ish although still slightly sporty one. Sort of like BMW and Mercedes you could say.

An Alfa Romeo would be a beatiful sporting machine with an evocative badge but a Lancia? Now that's Italian prestige. At least that's how i would want it.

Re: Lancia´s news from 2006

"Is Lancia now competing with the Swedes as a somewhat-prestigious, distinctive mainstream alternative, or with Skoda as a comfort-oriented value manufacturer, evoking a conservative and traditional pseudo-prestigious image?" wrote Car4mh.

That´s plausible: Lancia as a competitor to Volvo. This still begs the question what is Volvo about apart from safety. If Volvo "owns" safety, what does Lancia bring to the party? Not much which is why Volvo S80s outsold Lancia Thesises (pl?) 450 to 1.

Your analysis of Skoda is perfect and I´d say Skoda appeals to the kind of people who used to buy Volvo 340s and cheaper 240s. These are conservative people who like the associations of the chrome grille and fluted metalwork. 

Back to Volvo/Lancia:  Volvo has had 50 years of consistently pushing safety and quality and would appear to be quite safe in their niche positioning. Lancia has flimmered and wobbled about ever since Fiat bought them. I don´t think they can muscle in easily on the Volvo/Rover/Ghia-badged Ford sector.  

But, Ga41 writes :"Alfa Romeo the more sporting near premium brand and Lancia the premium-ish although still slightly sporty one."   I really don´t see how this would appear in the "real world" but in so writing, you have illustrated the problem excellently. 

In my view, Alfa should be sporty to very sporty, with overt sporting styling inside and out: hooded dials, deep dish ashtray, Recaroid seating, short, stubby gearlever. Butch. The Lancia should be good to drive too but with huge effort expended on steering quality, brake feel and agility and more emphasis on ride refinement and compliance. In the Alfa you should notice the gearlever snicking into place. In the Lancia everything should be transparent and well-oiled. Like a well-dressed man, you won´t notice the refined quality until fifteen minutes has passed. Every Lancia should be unbelievably comfortable to sit in and should put a premium on space and colour. An Alfa should feel snug, in contrast. So, how do you stop this recipe appealing to elderly lawyers and ladies who lunch? Nearly outrageous styling. Alfa can recall its sporting past. Lancia should be strikingly modern, wierd nearly, like Citroen or Ford in its Edge-design days. The Lancia person likes Bang&Olufsen not Church´s shoes. The Lancia man or woman has a freaky modern house and needs to impress no-one. They would spend money on eating at El Bulli. This is completely different from the current Lancia person who likes brown leather, 19th century architecture and who surrounds themselves with vintage things.

Where does this fit on my brand triangle? I need a fourth corner or it means Lancia has a USP, it is not fighting for an existing niche.

If anyone in Lancia is reading, my brand management services are available at a reasonable cost.

Re: Lancia´s news from 2006

Hello Mr K: it´s odd you mention the Thesis having an odd platform. To my knowledge, the Thesis had a unique platform. There was no reason why the car had to be about 10 cm too short or 5 cm too high. If they´d put a hand´s length into the wheelbase, the car would have been saved.

Like you I´m not that old, a mere 38 winters. The first Lancia I recall noticing was the Lancia Trevi which I noticed in 1990 or so. I thought it was a freak, a hopeful monster. Then I noticed the Thema which I liked alot, even if it was just a Saab-y thing with a different grille. My real appreciation has developed without seeing more than the odd Thesis, some Kappas (see my gallery) some rusting Deltas and many Ypsilons (see my gallery). I suppose my point here is that one doesn´t have to have driven one or seen many to like the idea of Lancia. But having read a lot about the brand I see there´s something valuable that can and ought to be saved. And some brands live up to Lancia values. The fact is that Vincenzo Lancia made astonishingly good cars and this is what Lexus does today.

How does the brand triangle strike you? I mean, since you don´t have a particular axe to grind, you more objective comments would be enlightening.

Re: Lancia´s news from 2006

I like the Ferrero Rocher analogy. Needle sharp. And yes, your Jaguar comparison is also relevant. It´s not unlikely that Jaguar have come to the same realisation as I have about Lancia, that "olde world" retro is not the way forward. In a way, Jaguar is a British Lancia or Lancia could have been an Italian Jaguar.

The 80s Lancia were uptarted Fiats. That´s not at all cynical to say so. It was Fiat who were cynical in trying to capture the "cut above but not top-drawer" market with some wood trim and some alacantra. They tried to make good with the Ypsilon, Kappa and Thesis, however, by having more serious differentiation. The retro styling has not helped the cause.

Bold, daring design is the only way forward, for now anyway. If you look at my gallery there´s a photo of a Gamma interior, all red and black and far more daring than anything you´d see today. That´s what we need. Bracing modernity.

On the one hand, yes, the new Delta is a touch Ferrero Rocher, but on the other, I like the cushiness of the car and in most trim and colour specs you can avoid the overdone loucheness that many North Europeans find so off putting.Personally, I seem to like the óverdone luxury of cars like the Renault 25 Baccara, 80s Maseratis and 90s Lancia (ever see the interior of the Lancia Lybra?).

I recognise that not many others do. (See  also "The Love That Dare Not...")

Re: Lancia´s news from 2006

If I had the ability, the nous, the bottomless resources & steely determination necessary & could only rescue one marque, it would most likely be Lancia.
Why? That’s a slightly difficult question for me to answer because most of my favourite Lancia’s were never (properly) produced - (Florida II/2800 GT Speciale) but they represent for me the kind of engineering purity & pursuit of excellence that is never and could never be striven for now. Lancia, like all of the Grand Marques has a deep and noble history yet, despite the glory on the racetracks & the special stages, the wonderful cars, the engineering innovation, Lancia as a marque is all but dead.
There was a time when they were the racing driver’s motor of choice. Most F1 stars of the time had an Aurelia. Fangio drove one, so did Peter Collins. Mike Hawthorn raced his dad’s. Enzo Ferrari, wary of appearing flash in one of his own cars, owned a Lancia. They were that good - and witheringly expensive too..
The cars were developed it would appear without cost considerations. The Lancia range during the 1960’s consisted of the Fulvia (Front wheel drive narrow angle V4 of 1.1 litre to 1.6 - 3 body styles), the mid-range Flavia; (front wheel drive horizontally opposed 1.5 - 2.0 engine - 4 body styles) & culminating in the Flammina; (Rear-drive in-line V6 2.5-2.8 litres - 4 body styles). No real mechanical or bodily commonality between them. All of them excellent - not always pretty, but noble.
Not too surprising then that they went spectacularly bankrupt in 1969. Citroen, a marque it resembles in many ways took a similar route to oblivion at more or less the same time. The parallels between the French firm & Lancia are intriguing. Both sacrificed profitability at the alter of high engineering ideals. (Lancia toyed with hydro pneumatic suspension during the gestation of the Gamma) Both found the market indifferent to excellence, blinded as they were and still are by marketing and ‘design’. Both were subsumed and emasculated by bigger savvier automotive giants who neither understood nor could countenance that kind of engineering rigour. Under Fiat, Lancia has been strangled - their very DNA annihilated under a layer of acandara, soft furnishings & retro grilles. Fiat have never made a success of large cars, yet they seemed to have ensured no Lancia could succeed either. Yet, it was at the upper end of the market that they were at their best.
So here we are, at a crossroads of sorts; manufacturers desperate to stay in business - marques desperately trying to reinvent themselves (or in Citroen’s case divest themselves of their recent past). What for Lancia?
Sadly - desperately so in my opinion, I feel only oblivion awaits. There has never been any real willingness amongst Fiat’s top management to address the issue of Lancia - a matter the Turin giant has struggled with since their assimilation at the beginning of the 1970’s.
Now as Fiat grapples with either global domination or total annihilation (whichever comes to pass) the cause of Lancia seems likely to lose any residual hold it might have had as bigger and more costly fish are fried. Alfa Romeo - a marque that is recognised and well loved around the world will continue to be supported - Lancia, appreciated only by those who remember what the marque used to stand for will continue it’s slow and painful route to oblivion. But if Saab can be rescued, perhaps Lancia can too. Now, where did I put that Euromillions ticket?