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You are in... Forums > Car manufacturers > Europe > PSA´s large cars
Joined:
Feb 07
Posts: 4492
bertandnairobi says:
Hi Car4Mh: thanks for the research. Good work. It must be fantastic to have the CARchive available to hand. I´d rather enjoy such a resource. I will look at the link in due course and thanks also for the personel update at Ford. I have not read Jürgen Pütchler´s name anywhere yet. Wouldn´t it be great to do an interview with him and one or two others (Renault might me amusing). I´m sure Herr P would like the publicity.
Below are my photos of the Peugeot 508 grille and the little appended badge. Does anyone think I might be on to something? I´ve also showed their untidy chromed window surround. Compare this to the way it´s done on a Skoda Superb where the seam is directly under the pillar for the rear quarter light. It´s much more unobtrusive. Sorry, but I don´t have a photo.
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Apr 08
Posts: 2363
livc44411 says:
RE: Peugeot ride&handling
I have an old French car mag in the attic dating back from 96-97 from when the 406 came out, one article is about ride and handling. I will dig it out on Friday and confirm/let you know who the Peugeot chief engineer was back in those days .
-Focus RS,Megane RS,you gotta love 'em-
Oct 06
Posts: 3040
Online
Sam the Eagle says:
@ B&N
yes you're right about the name tag on the 508. It smacks of insecurity of the highest order.
However it looks like it could easily be removed. or covered with electrical tape. Or maybe Peugeot will offer buyers the option to display a name of their choice, be it the car's nickname, or their own name and/or that of their better half?
Hell is other people.
Posts: 568
Goatboy says:
car4mh said: But it's probably a composite of several stories I read years ago. Like a group test involving the Beetle Cabrio and possibly C3 Pluriel that I can't find any evidence of...
But it's probably a composite of several stories I read years ago. Like a group test involving the Beetle Cabrio and possibly C3 Pluriel that I can't find any evidence of...
------ End Quote ------
I don't know about anyone else but the idea of a test between two such automotive behemoths is tantalising beyond measure. Might I suggest 'Reach for the Stars' as a possible title?
I know this is off-topic but reading it caused me to ponder a suitably camp headline. Any other takers? Oh, just me then...
Dec 06
Posts: 1803
car4mh says:
Goatboy said: car4mh said: But it's probably a composite of several stories I read years ago. Like a group test involving the Beetle Cabrio and possibly C3 Pluriel that I can't find any evidence of... ------ End Quote ------ I don't know about anyone else but the idea of a test between two such automotive behemoths is tantalising beyond measure. Might I suggest 'Reach for the Stars' as a possible title? I know this is off-topic but reading it caused me to ponder a suitably camp headline. Any other takers? Oh, just me then...
I still can't find evidence of that bizarre half-imagined comparison - I think CAR ignored the Beetle cabrio after Herr Kacher drove it in Florida. But imagine it - a Giant Test between a 206cc, Mini cabriolet, C3 Pluriel and Beetle Cabriolet. A camp title... what about 'From air to eternity'? 'Roofless ambition?' 'exposed to greatness' or even, 'top gear'?
Further to my earlier posting, I´ve been to two Peugeot dealers (in Ireland) to inspect the 508. I discovered why the chromed window surround is assembled in the way shown above. In certain cheaper models one or both chromed parts are swapped for black plastic. The manufacturing solution is thus born of a need for some artificial model differentiation. I have further notes on my static investigtation to follow.
Peugeot have made claims about the improved quality of the car but they still can´t cut the edge of their headliner neatly. See the photos below. I had a look at the rear lamps and there was variation in the gaps from left to right. The driver and front passenger seat have, for some reason, been trimmed in hard plastic and there are visible split lines. In lower-series models there is no armrest, which is a mean-spirited touch for a car which is now the top of Peugeot´s hierarchy. Sitting in the driver´s seat I noticed how imposing the b-pillars are. They have really grown, from circa 160 mm to circa 220 mm in width (measured from car front to car back). I wonder how much thicker these can be. The effect is that when you look sideways the view is as restricted as a panel van. Sitting in the rear, the high waistline, thick b-pillar, high front seat and huge headrestraint make for a rather claustrphobic experience. President Sarkozy is not going to enjoy being chauffeured in one of these, is he?
I´ve found out how Peugeot go about making their cars look comparatively good. It´s by bringing out a replacement. The new 508 makes the 407 look appealing, particularly if we´re talking about interior comfort and quality.
I have measured the b-pillars of the Peugeot 405, 406 and 407. The figures are not quite precise but accurate enough for my purposes. I measured thickness at the base.
405: 130mm.
406: 165 mm (25% wider than the 405)
407: 160 mm (4% narrower than the 406 or else very similar)
508: 220 mm (37% wider than the 407)
Extrapollating from this, using an average of the size changes, the next large Peugeot will have a 300 mm wide b-post. The average increase is 19% per model. I wonder if this trend can continue. For comparison, the current Passat, S40, and previous 5-series and the Saab 9000 were all similar to the Peugeot 406 b-pillar width.
Sep 06
Posts: 1316
-Joe- says:
Talking of crap Peugeot quality we had a 207 on hire for the second time. This year I found more things that annoy me. I know it's not a large car and should be in the Friday afternoon thread but thought it was relavent.
First is the mismatched dash. I don't particulary like cars which don't flow around into the door cards, but some work and some are, well, untidy to be nice. It gets worse when you look from the outside. See other image. And cause the window line sweeps up at the back they have to stick some black plastic on the inside.
"I am an admirer of Jonathan Ive's work and I like to take it as a compliment." Dieter
Also another gripe with the boot handle. I have before said about trapping my skin in the very poor boot handle. But this year while trying to get to the boot from the side as there was no room at the back, I couldn't find the switch and found the a big gap in the underside of theboot where the lights are mounted in. And as you guessed it is full of hard, sharp plastics to attack your skin. Just shoddy.
Another thing is that our car when we picked it up it had 800km on the clock. I noticed near the end of the holiday that the shoddy door handle had already lost it's 'soft touch' coating and was peeling off. This is a car with proably 1500km on it and barely run in. We treated the car with care and could have been there at the start. Either way really poor quality.
The mismatch between the interior and the exterior of the window is the most egregious of the problems you pointed out. While it is nicer to mate the dash and doors in a tidy way, it can be a bit constraining. There could be some conditions where you´d trade off an abrupt door-to-dash junction with some interesting sculpture or some other advantage. In Peugeot´s case it looks like indifference.
The general point about all of this is that the production and design people at PSA have tried to design beyond their price point. The soft-touch plastic is a cheap substitute for the real thing and while it looks nice in show-room and might make a sale, I think it´s bad business to let down your customers in this way. One year in to ownership, countless 207 owners will say "Look at that flayed plastic...I´m off to VW next time around." The problem with PSA isn´t the engineering it´s the cynicism of whoever dictates to the designers. It´s cynicism worthy of GM USA, to be be honest. The 508 is not as good a car as it should be, even if it's bigger and features some spanky IP graphics and chromey details. Peugeot ought to make sure they get the fundamentals right: make sure nothing wears excessively or falls off. That´s the stuff people eventually respect a car for. Not 0.3mm layers of silver-effect foil on door handles. That´s inane.
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